I am not asking if getting drunk is a sin. I want to know if any of you think it’s a sin for a Christian to have a drink or even several as long as it doesn’t lead to drunkenness?
What about for a pastor or church leader?
Please provide scriptural evidence for your answer.
It is my firm conviction that drinking alcoholic beverages is not a sin. All of the instances in the bible that indicate sin relate to drunkenness specifically and not to consuming alcohol. My impression of the lifestyles and social circumstances that Jesus was comfortable with also incorporated the consumption of wine and probably beer as well. Unfortunately there is a modern, legalistic form of christianity in the US in particular that reminds me of the attitudes of the Pharisees. As a result of this one of my major struggles in my faith has to do with how people who are ignorant of the truth (hehe) perceive my understanding of the scriptures and what is acceptable behavior.
My experience has been that recent christian tradition (especially in the bible belt) trumps the actual text and meaning of the scriptures themselves. I’ve yet to have anyone provide any sort of proof that consuming alcohol is forbidden based on scripture, since the opposite is true. I’d supply specific verses but there are too many to choose from. However, from the incorporation of varietal wines in the OT feasts/rituals to the early miracles of Jesus in the NT this is almost a non-issue for me. What truly matters to God is the attitude of the heart; drinking and then irresponsibly driving, or drowning one’s sorrows in drink are not appropriate in the slightest. Such excess or lapses of judgment don’t apply to mere consumption though.
I try to avoid this topic though since it usually frustrates me when it’s brought up in conversation. Maybe not frustrate so much as saddens, because people choose to believe things but not according to knowledge. Ah well, I suppose the world would be a better place if there was no alcohol in it. And re-reading your post… I have had drinks with pastors, missionaries, and church leaders before and it was not awkward in the slightest.
I think we can lump all these together… Smoking Drinking, and Tattoos. Piper’s only valid (biblical) point is “I will not be enslaved by anything” (1 Corinthians 6:12) Enslaved indicated control or addiction. As long as I am not controlled by these actions then no sin, no foul.
The Apostle Paul is clear that we have complete liberty on Christ as long as we are not tripping weaker believers. See Romans 14. If we are in the company of a “weaker” believer, we should not force out liberty on them. We should abstain, show grace, and enter into biblical dialog about the issue until hopefully the mature in the faith.
Our liberty is clear… and Piper should have quoted the whole verse…
“All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
(1Co 10:23-24)
“All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
(1Co 10:23-24)
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
(Col 2:16-17)
While I see the bible as being completely silent on smoking, as you mentioned, it is clear that drunkenness is a sin. (Romans 13:13, Gal.5:21, 1 Peter 4:3, Eph. 5:18) The argument that alcohol leads to drunkenness so you should abstain is foolish and in and of itself a form of legalism. It would be like saying food causes gluttony so don’t eat. The biblical mandate is moderation/self control… Gal.5:22
As for tattoos… There is no New Testament issue with this. If we use the verses in Leviticus as a guide, then I have to use all… check this clip out on YouTube that deals with the issue (Clip from “The West Wing) it is amazing… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWqgD7lGneU Since many of us are tattooed and are Christians, IMHO, I think we can be strategic about them. We can use them as opportunities to share the gospel. We can use it as an opportunity to gain the trust of and build relationships with others in the tattoo tribe.
my 2 cents
As has already been stated, there’s no scriptural support for the idea that drinking alcohol is a sin. I think for me it goes back to my upbringing in the old Methodist Church back in the 50s and 60s, and the influence the WCTU (Women’s Christian Temperance Union) had on me. I thought for a long time that drinking was a sin, and I still won’t drink, because I don’t have to.
The hard part has been learning that it’s OK for people to drink in moderation, even me if I chose to do so.
But drinking is such a borderline thing, IMHO. You’re walking right next to a line, across which your behavior is clearly destructive, both to yourself and possibly to others, even your loved ones. Rather than walk right next to that line, I prefer to stay quite a ways away from it, and I urge my children to do the same, although they’re old enough that I can’t tell them what to do any more. It may not be a sin in itself, but by indulging in it, one may find he is playing with fire.
I’ll stay away, thank you.
The weaker/stronger brother issue is definitely a major consideration. We should not let our liberty cause another to stumble.
Second, I do believe that leaders (elders etc) should be held to a higher standard. They are to be “above reproach” (Titus 1:7).
I don’t believe it is a sin per sa…and would be the last person to advocate legalism. On the other hand, (a) if you cause a fellow believer to stumble, (b) if you hurt your witness, or (c) if you are in a position where it could be considered that you are not above reproach because of engaging in this activity…then I do believe it is sin.
The better option? The opposite of Nike — just don’t do it!
In 1 Timothy Chapter 3 we are given a description as to how overseers, deacons and their wives should be, in the ESV translation it says the deacon should be “not a drunkard” 1 Timothy 3:3, in the SRV translation it says “No amador del vino” , in the LBLA it says “no dado a la bebida” if I were a person who did not know any english whatsoever and only had the SRV or LBLA I would think that leaders of a Congregation like pastors shouldn’t drink alcohol.
But it is not a sin, because we see throughout the entire old and new testament that drinking wine is ok as long as it doesn’t lead to drunkenness. And in the weddings of Canaan we see Jesus Christ turning water into wine as his first miracle.
i just have one question….what about the fact that our bodies are to be a holy temple?? Alcohol is harmful in any portion and tattoos can also be harmful. I have really been trying to seek out an answer to drinking a sin and it is hard to come up with it being a sin, but i do believe that it harms our body and we are to keep it a holy temple for God!
Amanda
so…. no wine with the bread?
Amanda, your question isn’t a question as much as it is a statement.
Can you please show me the medical evidence that supports your claim that alcohol in any portion is harmful?
Can you also please explain how it is that tattoos can be harmful?
Alcohol is not harmful in and of itself. Established medical guidelines recommend a glass of wine per day to help prevent heart disease. Wine is loaded with flavinoids and antioxidants. No substantiated evidence that it is harmful – only in excess. Tattoos are only harmful on two occasions – using a dirty needle, or a hypersensitivity reaction to the ink. Otherwise, harmless. Sorry.
As I mentioned with smoking – I will drink TWO glasses of beer, liquor, wine – whatever – you pick per day and you eat a big mac daily. All other things being equal, I will outlive you.
If you condemn alcohol, smoking, etc., you must condemn saturated fats, refined sugar, etc. They are ALL bad for you. If you call smoking or drinking a sin and even nibble on a Snickers – you are a hypocrite and a terrible witness for your weaker brother. For, if you can eat a Snickers, they can too.
El Roberto
I have to agree with Robert. Though food is a necessity for us, eating that fatty high cholestrol grease ridden hamburger is NOT necessary by any means. I have heard lots of sermons against alcohol, but when is the last time you heard a sermon against eating in excess?
I love the Lord and i hate His enemies with a passion. I do smoke cigars-thats probably why i cant find a girlfriend right now, Austin Power’s teeth is something i envy. I also do drink on occasion. If one is getting drunk than it is more than a drinking problem that one has. It is His golden commands that He is more concerned with than my nicotine stain teeth . In regards to our are bodies being the temples of the Holy Spirit that verse in context was in reference to sexual immorality. Not the law of thou shall not eat shrimp or thou shalt wear only natural fibers. P.S. i love my coffee almost to the point of sin, almost. On another note i downloaded the Apostles Bible on my hand held Nokia N800. Love it, its based on the LXX.
I struggle with this battle of smoking. my faith is so strong in most areas but trying to quit smoking is a toughy. I know that we shouldn’t care what other people think, but let’s face it we do. I feel judged that others my think that i fake the presence of the Holy Spirit, because I show love , encouragement and other fruits of the spirit. I know they are real. I have to count on knowing and feeling the presence of God or I could not make it through a day or a moment. I never want to play church. anything that is good in me comes from the Holy Spirit. without Him I am nothing. But if people know I smoke I think they would be inclined to think i fake my close relationship with Jesus. Please help me not to fell this condemnation sometimes that might hold me back from doing God’s work. Thank You. Love to all and A very Merry Christmas that is filled with God’s presence.
http://edrafafhfoppopik.com edrafafhfoppopik
edrafafhfoppopik
edrafafhfoppopik
Is drinking a sin? It is for me. I’m with Paul on this one. Anything you view as a sin for yourself is a sin for you….
Debbie much like you I battled tobacco. I finally decided it was a sin for me because it had control over me and I finally quit after using tobacco for 15 years. Does that mean I think you are sinning? Nope. I really try to be careful to not judge anyone. What good would that do? I would be sinning by doing so. If I were going to judge what was a sin and what wasn’t then I would have kept using tobacco and drinking alcohol. The closer you become to Jesus the less you have to wonder about what is a sin and what isn’t. All you have to do is ask him and he will show you.
To elaborate on drinking the reason it is a sin for me is because of the person it turns me in to…